ICSAA 2018 Toronto – Post Conference Survey
How satisfied were you with the Toronto ICSAA event?
How would you describe your current belief system?
What Religious or Spiritual Tradition were you raised in?…if any?
- Lutheran Christian
- Catholic & Atheist
- Borderline Protestan
- Southern Baptist
- United Methodist
- Roman Catholic.
- Catholic Presbytaria
- Catholic / C of E
- Roman Catholic
When did you adopt your current belief system?
- 15 years of sobriety
- Hard to say
- 10 years ago
- Young adult
- at 20
- age 6 to age 75
- As a teenager
- Step 2
- It has evolved thru recovery
- Age 16
- Early teens
- Aty age 12
- Age 14
- 40 years ago- not a belief
- Age 6
- a few decades ago
- Developed through life.
- Ever Evolving
- 15 years of age
- As long as I can remember.
- It continues to evolve
- Teen years
- teen years
Was that before or after you became a member of AA?
Have you been active in General Service Work? If so please describe….
- 26 years sober. I have been involved in service for about 20 years. GSR 4-5 times, DCM, Central Office Treasurer, PI, Phone, RoundUp posns.
- I started a secular meeting and continue to run it weekly. I was treasurer for one group in the past and GSR at another time.
- Yes GSR
- Intergroup rep., gsr, district chair, cpc chair
- yes, with local group and with Chicago AA publications committee
- Group-all functions, especially treasurer. DCM twice (second time picking up the pieces).
- Started the website AA Agnostica. Started a We Agnostics AA meeting in Hamilton on February 4, 2016. Published a few books relevant to secular AA.
- secretary, treasurer, literature, speaker, T&Cs
- GSR for secular group
- Service within home group(s). Sponsoring. Volunteering at conferences
- Secular AA Only
- active in first decade
- I was GSR for my home group in FL before moving to NC
- Yes as a Housekeeper and GSR- but now not in Traditional AA which I don’t attend
- GSR, Area-Secretary, Area PI Chair, Area Treasurer and Area Chair Hawaii mid80s-early90s Intergroup Rep and Central Office vacation relief manager
- No. I’ve tried to get a GSR for our group, to no avail. Our average attendance is about 8 people, and 1/2 are not regulars.
- Meeting founder GSR Treasurer round-up committee member
- No. Preferred to avoid “politics”
- GSR, Alano Club President. Previous question is not an either/or…I have adopted my current belief system over many years, both before and after AA.
- Yes, GSR rep, attend GSR meetings, Group business meetings
- Yes. Meeting Secretary GSR For Freethinkers & We Agnostics Solana Beach, CA
- I have a commitment that stems from a request from NY Intergroup, i.e. a public information activity, speaking in high schools. I am not a GSR.
- Trusted servant at various 12 step meetings
- Not since first few years (c29 years ago)
Would you be willing to represent your secular AA group to ICSAA?
Would you be willing to be an ICSAA contact for your home group?
How did you become aware of Secular AA?
- I left AA due to supernatural talk. About the 2 year mark I began searching for secular societies and found a secular AA meeting. So I went back to AA
- Someone told me there were secular meetings in Toronto and I attended one.
- Word of mouth
- Found agnostica while searching AA royalties which opened Secular AA
- I was just looking for alternative ways to recover and saw this convention information. Maybe it was through Beyond Belief.
- I did a search online and found a secular AA group in Jacksonville, FL.About
- told of aaagnostica at Austin Children of Chaos. A year before I looked at it and was hooked. Made life changing Santa Monica.
- I attended the Beyond Belief meeting in Toronto in 2010. By accident.
- online, Google
- Roger C.s AA Agnostica
- The internet! One day it hit me, I can’t be the only one and I went searching and found you all!
- Someone told me about aaagnostica
- Searching on the internet. Went to 2016 conference. Complete affirmation
- Heard about Beyond Belief in 2012. I don’t remember how.
- Local Level .. Founding member of We Agnostics DC in September 1988 National/International Santa Monica, CA, convention in 2014 which I attended
- attended a secular meeting
- I’ve been attending a secular AA meeting since the mid-80s. In 2012, a person at the Intergroup office told me about aaagnostica.org.
- A sponsee struggling with religiosity and abstinence dogma found out about it online and told me
- AA Agnostica, AA Beyond Belief, websites
- at the AA International in Atlanta 2015
- As an entity? I’ve been sober and in AA for over 38 years. I’ve always known there were atheists in AA, that’s how I got sober.
- Shortly before the WAAFT conference.
- Thomas B
- A secular meeting was announced in Idyllwild, CA and I went. There was info there about the Conference in Santa Monica. Loved it!
- Helped incorporate WFTAA
- Initial Founding member of WAFT
- My dear friends who started the Beyond Belief meeting in Forestville, CA. One has since died and the other is now has a Life Ring meeting he leads.
- I attended your sessions in Atlanta in 2015 and was very impressed by the positive atmosphere, i.e., they did not engage in religion-bashing.
- AA Agnostica
- AA Agnostica
How many years have you been attending secular AA meetings?
- approx 6 years
- 1 1/2
- 6 months
- About 2 years.
- about 12
- Eight years.
- 17 years
- 1 1/2 years
- 2.5 years
- 32 years
- 3 regularly some pr
- 5 yrs* (labeled as)
- 11 years
- 1 Little available A
- 6 or 7 years
- 2 years
Have you attended previous ICSAA Conferences? If so, how did Toronto compare with them?
- Only Toronto
- Yes Better
- I attended the conference in Austin. I enjoyed both conferences.
- Less rancorous but also less structured, in other words not structured enough
- Yes. It was better organized and had better facilities. Felt less exciting due to my greater maturity.
- Toronto was very, very good. Good speakers, good panels with a good variety of topics.
- no, but wanted to attend the one in Austin
- Comparable to both Santa Monica and Austin
- I’ve attended all 3. Santa Monica will always be special for being the first. Toronto was better than Austin.
- Yes, 2016. Toronto was very well organized with exceptional lecturers/clinicians.
- Austin. Toronto slightly improved on Austin.
- Toronto was in line with the previous two in terms of content both positive and negative. Venue far better than Austin which made a big difference.
- did not attend others
- I attended Austin 2016. It was more exciting, but only because it was my first one. Austin and Toronto were equally great.
- Yes. As good.
- yes, Austin and Toronto, I thought they were both great.
- The WAAFT in Santa Monica
- Attended Austin. Preferred Austin
- Each has its own unique special character.
- Toronto was best organized, & best location for public transit; also had most the intolerant expressions of atheism. I fear for Sec AA’s survival!
- 3. Continued ptogression
- The Santa Monica was the best…maybe because it was the first. Austin was okay. Toronto was better.
- I was in Austin in 2016 and spoke on two panels. The conferences were equally good.
- Yes. Attended both Santa Monica and Austin. Toronto offered a greater variety of breakouts and had a larger volunteer force organizing the event.
Do you attend traditional AA meetings?
If so, do you identify your secular or nontraditional beliefs?
How often should there be an International Secular AA Conference?
|Every Year||Every 2 Years||Every 3 Years||Every 4 years||Every 5 years|
Would you like to see more Regional conferences of Secular AA members? If so, how many and where?
- Yes, however I will go with the flow of what is happening now.
- I find the presence of SOAAR generally sufficient
- Yes 1 a year
- New England, no limit
- Yes in non-conference years
- Yes. 4. Places warm in the winter. Interesting in warm weather. Scattered dates.
- My home group is currently organizing the Secular Ontario AA Roundup (SOAAR) for 2018. So yes, I like them.
- One every year or two in London UK would be good – “regular” AA meetings in the UK are rather secular anyway, e.g. no “Lord’s Prayer” etc.
- Yes, instead of International conferences, focus on more regional ones.
- Maybe… I was attended Trad AA annually until they started quoting the bible…
- Yes. In AZ we do a statewide one on the off years for ICSAA, have done 2 already. Whenever people can put one together.
- Yes, I live in USA so 4 regional or regional with Canada on off years.
- Yes.. Same as currently with the addition of NE USA, Midwest USA, Europe
- yes – as many as we can support – eventually one per year in each region
- Yes. As far as frequency and location, I would say as often as possible and everywhere/anywhere. It’s important for the growth of secularism in AA.
- Yes- Africa every 4 years
- Four a year. In the US south, east, north and west. Mostly needed in smaller cities in Bible Belt.
- I think the more regionals we have the better, and in as many diverse locations as possible. I think these should be low cost and single day events.
- Ideally. Why 150 characters!? Do you mean 150 words? Anyway… I can’t even get an eating-meeting together in Eastern Mass, much less a conference
- I’d prefer to see more secular panels and speakers featured at traditional AA regional events rather than create more conferences.
- That would be dependent on each region and their ability to spread the word. Also the cost must be more reasonable for more folks to participate.
- Every 2 years.
- This would excellent in providing grass roots and regional connection.
- Yes. West Coast, Hawaiian Islands, Alaska, and I will let someone else figure out the rest of the country/world.
- I am sure that there could be an annual one in NY, but not on the scale of the biennial convention.
- Yes. In years when there is no annual conference. Location wherever there is a nucleus of secular members.
- Not sufficient numbers in Scotland. Doubt enough in UK to justify a UK conference either.
What did you like most about the Toronto Conference?
- I love the diverse ideas. I was not in a room where we were conformed to think the same. I also love the science perspective from doctors.
- Fellowship And bike ride up
- Speakers, workshops, fellowship getting to know there are many of us.
- The camaraderie, feeling free, no Lord’s parer or hand holding, no prayer before meals, the she devils group.
- Great venue, wonderful city, nice opportunities for fellowship.
- Central location downtown
- Exploring Toronto. Sound system good and most speakers used it better. Beth’s explanation as reviewed by Life (I was in a different place).
- Speakers. Dr. Ray Baker and Dr. Vera Tarman, in particular.
- The shares; the people!
- The eclectic range of speakers and workshops.
- Meeting people from the on-line meetings in person That like-minded people were everywhere! Being exposed to & part of the Secular AA movement
- The city of Toronto was the jewel. Easy to get around. People of Toronto were better than any major city I have ever been in.
- The fellowship with other members.
- meeting lots of folks with long term sobriety who share my views
- Fellowship. Meeting and speaking with others.
- The atheists
- speakers, workshops, free expression, literature, ACA being there too.
- diversity of opinion while still feeling solidly a part of and not apart from
- Meeting people. I don’t have enough characters allowed to say more. There is a huge box here but the thing stops me on the second line.
- Great speakers and panels.
- Opportunity to realise there are many of similar belief (or non belief) system as myself
- Why only 150 characters? The organizers did a really good job.
- Speakers and meeting people.
- The speakers. The location in Toronto especially compared to Austin.
- The very welcoming attitude, even to religious people like me, and the challenging content. Much food for thought.
- Deep involvement of attendees in workshop sessions.
- The fellowship of others and meeting others; and effort of many people to attend (seeing the commitment of others to Secular AA).
What did you like least?
- I disliked the spiritual topics. Spirituality is supernatural, not secular. We can make format secular and be inclusive to all regardless of belief.
- Complete lack of diversity in attendees and speakers, also they were weirdly stingy about coffee and there was almost no food, esp. vegan food
- It was all good
- The election was poorly run although the results are ok.
- A couple of the groups didn’t stay on topic.
- I thought we could have had more scientific and professional presentations.
- Marriott more expensive than necessary, rates should be no more than $125/night
- Chose unfamiliar topics/presenters. One not skilled and I could not easily leave.
- I hate spending a weekend in a hotel. The Santa Monica convention was super, precisely because it wasn’t a hotel.
- It was fine.
- The cost of the Marriott Hotel
- People who felt it was OK to shout out their displeasure of how/what was being said or done. Not the time or the place. It seemed very disrespectful.
- Intolerant atheists
- Having the conference below ground. Not enough filler stuff like local meetings of AA and Al-anon on site. Something fun for guests,yoga or theater
- I had time conflicts, because conference was in my home town
- The addition of the Grapevine and other outside speakers to the program.
- sessions led by relative newcomers (even if they’re professionals) were not as good all “spiritual giants” seem to have only 2 to 3 years of sobriety
- There was nothing I didn’t like. Maybe the expenses.
- Spiritual dogma still pervades as evidenced by the intolerance of atheists and presence of the Grapevine
- Fighting and rudeness by militant athiests. The push to make agnostic AA separate from AA.
- a few rude personal comments that were made in opposition of other’s beliefs. I would have preferred that we were more consistent with the message of
- No security. Need security guards! Too dangerous these days No weapons allowed into conference! Get a metal detector.
- Business meeting was confusing.
- Would have liked a couple of meetings as dinstinct from workshops.
- Having to fly there was a hastle.
- I would have paid for more meals to have more casual time with others. The hotel was a bit sterile compared to Santa Monica.
- The happy problem of not being able to attend everything I was interested in.
- Contention of some attendees and resulting emotional outbursts.
- The poor organisation for voting.
How can we make ICSAA 2020 in Washington, DC (Bethesda) better attended?
- Most members in my own group are not familiar with secular websites, books and events. I am trying to impress this upon them. We need contacts in secular groups to announce this.
- There has to be more reaching out to marginalized groups. Maybe some kind of lottery so people with lower incomes can attend. When it comes to speakers, reach out to people who don’t fit the stereotypical AA mold.
- More work shops
- We all should push it in our local meetings. Personal contact is always the best.
- Hmmmm. You may have to get some celebrity to endorse it. :)
- Advertise a lot!
- Greater exposure in AA materials and a larger presence in the Grapevine; development of boiler plate materials about Secualr AA which local people can suggest local service associations print in the publication and post on their websites
- time and money constrain most people. Procrastination. Local participation by more openminded religionists.
- Good speakers, good topics, respect for diversity and inclusiveness. Perhaps some social events and gatherings.
- Better spreading of the word beforehand to make others aware of ICSAA – especially outside the USA/Canada. It felt rather North-America-centric!
- I don’t think this will be a problem with the cost of the hotel being more reasonable and with Washington, DC as an attractor.
- Not really sure. I didn’t leave thinking if only they did this…. I was pretty happy with it.
- Ask groups to send delegates for business meeting, and start saving now.
- Unsure now. Pick a name Bethesda or Washington. Early name and ideal making it easy to promote.
- Earlier promotion of the program itself and more aggressive outreach on line.
- I don’t know. I will be there.
- I think many people attend or not based on their budgets. I believe there is a direct correlation between the individual costs and attendance.
- Get rid if the only requirement is a desire to stop drinking- accept that moderation works for many. Invite Smart, HAMS and other secular groups.
- Please emphasize kindness and respect among members. Please include representatives, and workshops for Refuge Recovery, AlAnon, ACA, Smart Recovery. Emphasis on other tools in addition to AA.
- better outreach (promotion), less expensive to attend
- It will be. The location is much better for Americans. You need a new webmaster perhaps. Sorry webmaster, but this site is a bit archaic.
- In-Reach :)
- Lower costs for registration, transportation, lodging and food.
- Should go fine. Not sure I’ll go. I’m 81 now and it’s getting harder to travel.
- Request donations for scholarships. Can a group sponsor a member to attend on their behalf? Just wondering.
- I think its proximity to DC will be a draw in itself. Definitely arrange for pre- and/or post- convention tours.
- Get detailed information out earlier, including hourly schedule and workshop sessions.
- As far as coming from overseas is concerned, competitive hotel rates. First impressions are Bethesda will be just fine.
Do you have any suggestions for the program for ISCAA 2020? If so, please share!
- People that written prominent books or articles (which we are already doing). Secular study groups (what do groups study as opposed to the Big Book or 12&12).
- Perhaps highlight more progressive speakers who aren’t just saying traditional AA stuff minus the God stuff. I am much more interested in looking at how we can create progress in AA, not how we can manage to fit ourselves into it as it is
- Maybe some evening meeting. speaker and/or discussion
- High quality, research based presentations.
- workshop on what spiritual development and awakening mean to people in secular aa
- I find the controversial speakers (the Johns) stimulating in small doses. Joe C. is an excellent moderator. Seek the most experienced secular speakers (perhaps even non Alcoholic?-Dan Barker, Dan Dennett, politicians, drug court judges, etc?) Probably could be used at after dinner events where anonymity is less a problem. I’m thinking along the lines of Ray B. and Marya but even better known as a draw. I think people went specifically to Santa Monica to hear Ward Ewing for example. I certainly found him a draw. I can tell you that Annie Laurie Gaylor at Freedom From Religion Foundation cheered my report of secular AA and said they receive a lot of calls from alcoholics wanting to find a solution without religion (she is persistently enthusiastic about most things I find). At the FFRF convention I just attended, Salman Rushdie, the founder of the congress secular caucus, and John DeLancie were very effective speakers). One of the well known but less self aggrandizing of the Hollywood alcoholics might be a good main speaker). What I find most frustrating is speakers who are too shy to use the mike effectively. FFRF provides earphones, but at the Hyatt Regency the sound and presenters were so good that no one used them. At all our functions, I spend much of my time seeking presenters I can hear (mostly my problem, but still….)
- Nope. Pretty much follow what was done in Toronto.
- Al-Annon, ACA participation
- Focus on inclusivity and diversity to include representation from GSO.
- Sorry, nothing comes to mind. I’ll be sure to reach out if I think of something!
- Keep the same variety there was in Toronto. Don’t veer off into atheists only and traditional AA and the steps are worthless.
- There are several atheist comedians in recovery some are hardcore atheist. Maybe an invite for dinner speaker. I would be willing to write and ask
- Elimination of the Grapevine and GSO from the program and more avowedly atheist content.
- Old timers don’t have a drinking problem, they have a living problem. focus on deeper issues such as swapping addictions, relationships, codependency, etc.
- Controversial/radical opinion must be given a voice at a conference. However, in Toronto they were given far too much of a platform. I fear DC will be worse.
- The only requirement for any item of the programme should be that it is evidence based
- For people who can’t travel to convention, offer an online component at a reduced price. Make a big focus on how to spread the word about us to AA and treatment centers, so that alcoholics who are not believers know we are here and how to find us.
- more diverse panelists. I think we should practice AAs principle of working with our friends and even learning from them. Would love to hear from professionals that aren’t necessarily secular-minded. and would love more involvement from other than secular AAs and hopefully GSO/Grapevine staff.
- People were connecting on apps and Facebook for getting together for meals and I totally missed that. Do more to connect people who may not be technically connected. I also REALLY liked the “chill room” hotel room — do that again! Also if we have our own suite ICSAA can buy their own (less expensive) food and beverages and coffee for that. Maybe you could even have some board games in there. (Hmmm, it’s letting me write more than 150 characters here.) I also think it’s important to have regular meetings people can go to every hour in addition to just workshops and panels (as we did in Toronto). Sometimes you burn out on workshops and panels and need a real AA meeting about staying sober! Plus it’s a good way to connect to other people. I also think organizing some simple, cost-free social things would be good — i.e., I would have liked to have a group to walk down to Lake Ontario with me when we were in Toronto. It was so close. I went by myself! Again, don’t ASSUME everyone is on Facebook or Snapchat or whatever. I think having the big lunch on Saturday was really great. I thought the Sunday morning breakfast was ok too, but I’m not a morning person. I liked the marathon speakers on the first evening, and I liked that that was open to the public. (Maybe we could do the marathon speaker thing at another location that’s not as expensive as the hotel?) I did not like that speakers and panels were recorded and summarily put onto the internet without any kind of signed permission from anyone. You need to get people to give you their written permission before making recordings public.
- Social activities
- Symposium of GSR’s comparing notes. More MD’s presenting scientific papers or research results.
- More about the pathophysiology of the disease.
- Maybe a discussion of how sober atheists and sober religious people can learn from each other. I’d be willing to participate.
- Get detailed information out earlier, including hourly schedule and workshop sessions. Promote early.
- More ‘short share’ meetings alongside ‘workshop’ meetings. For example: Toronto, outwith main meetings, say one ‘short shares, say 5 minute share max, alongside every 4 ‘workshop/seminars’. Get to know more people that way.
What would you like to see at future International Secular Conferences?
- More informal discussion meetings as opposed to panel discussions. Ask atheist celebrity i.e. Richard Dawkins to give a talk?
- Same as above. Also, if its’ going to be so expensive, food should really be included. I understand it’s not cheap to run these events but it’s not inclusive to have prices so high.
- I liked the whole group dinner at the first two conferences which created a sense of unity and community; could be done as a luncheon too, a really dynamic speaker to keynote the conference at the dinner or luncheon; also a secualr aa video of members explaining why they find secular aa helpful
- 500 people and most younger than me. Statistical evidence of our growth. Use the egocentric better presenters (not me). Main focus speaker like Ray or Ward or Marya–can’t even think of someone equivalent at Austin). Central cities in NA. Themes which would get some of our talented writers incorporated into AA literature. The current Grapevine efforts are find but the articles continue to be “mealy mouthed” in my opinion. John H. points that out effectively though controversially. If our focus continues to be in beyondbelief, agnostica and the various online meetings, I feel we are missing our main goal of opening up AA. Small cities like mine need an open AA. Why do so many people have trouble starting meetings? I’ve started many but specialized ones such as the one in Miles City need someone like me who will consistently show up even if no one else does–and I’m normally at the meeting place about an hour before the appointed time. I now notice the 150 characters max should not be on each question (unless you really want concise answers) On the coffee question coming up–I like the hospitality rooms with coffee pots. Especially if open 24 hours. Would that be cheaper? In Toronto I think the volunteers bought and kept the coffee going though it was sometimes empty. A more convenient room (not 3 floors above the meeting rooms) might be worthwhile. But my experience is that someone needs to be constantly keeping them full in meetings of alcoholics or they become frustration centers. And one needs enough large ones to handle the crowd between large meetings. I guess some people need $3 fancy coffee–let them go to the Starbucks–but I, and I suspect some others, won’t pay more than $.50 for something which I can make for $.10. $15 for 3 days of what I want is also ridiculous though I’d pay it before going to my second Starbucks for coffee of this lifetime (unless it’s to go see girls). Oof, da. Hope you only read the first 150 characters!!
- Pretty much what I saw in Toronto.
- A mindfulness or quiet meditation area/room – were people can come in and sit down to contemplate.
- More speakers and workshops led by folks NOT from North America.
- Sorry, nothing comes to mind. I’ll be sure to reach out if I think of something!
- Better participation in business meeting. Better dissemination of info about the organization a long time before the conference so groups can send people to participate.
- More accommodations/clinics for agnostics and freethinkers. Not all are hardcore atheists. More AA Swag.
- A greater emphasis on the basics of making a decision, not drinking, meetings, sharing and helping an another alcoholic. Less discussion of “spirituality” and “Steps”.
- Please choose spots that are also good for tourism, so I can extend the trip with a vacation.
- The programs are great. However, because fellowship is my primary purpose for attendance, I would like to have a meal for all every evening instead of just one evening.
- More evidence based items on the programme, more information about other programmes of recovery that work- for example the Sinclair Method
- Focus on presentations, programs and other tools that work best to get people sober. Less emphasis on angry politics. Get young people involved. How can we get representation at young people’s AA conferences.
- more service related workshops
- I’m reading below about getting gouged by the hotel for coffee. They won’t let us have our own coffee and hot water urns and paper cups? Even if we provide our own? $15 more in registration per person is outrageous for hot water and coffee. As I said above, I also think we need security, because in this day and age, in this country in particular, it is imperative. I know it’s AA, but it’s also a controversial conference. So get some security guards, make people show a pass to get in, and maybe have people go through a security check point. I’d pay $15 more for some security.
- Workshops defining non-theist, atheist, agnostic, free thinker, etc. Lively discussion would surely follow.
- Less spirituality!
- The above suggestion is all I can think of now.
- Evening activities/ opportunities to socialize.
- More guest speakers linked to ‘secular’ approach. Retain AA GSO/WSO representation with more Q&A from floor.
Coffee stations have proven to be very expensive. Would you pay $15 more for the ICSAA Registration Fee if it included free coffee stations in or directly outside the meeting rooms? (FYI, there is a Starbucks in the basement of the ICSAA 2020 site.)
Where are you from: (City/State or Province/Country)
- Eastern Passage, Nova Scotia, Canada
- North Bay, Ontario
- Morton pa usa
- Woodstock Connecticut USA
- Fernandina Beach, FL
- Miles City
- Hamilton, Ontario, Canada.
- United States: Wenona, Illinois
- Anaheim, CA USA
- Mesa, AZ, USA
- Seminole Texas USA
- Bethesda, MD
- Seattle WA
- Mars Hill, NC, United States
- Cape Town
- las vegas, nevada
- Boston, MA
- Bandon, Oregon, USA
- Palm Springs, CA
- Solana Beach/San Diego CA
- Monte Rio, Sonoma County, CA
- New Rochelle, NY (to immediate north of NYC)
- Milwaukee, WI USA
- Glasgow, Scotland, UK
Gender Identification: (Male/Female/Trans)
How old are you?
Length of Sobriety:
|Under One Year||1-5 years||5-10 years||10-15 years||15-20 years||20-25 years||25-30 years||30-35 years||35-40 years||40-45 years||45 plus years|